ep. 3: freeze, thaw, feel ft. Ri

sorry y'all - I know this episode over a month late, but the title sorta says it all -- it's been A LOT lately in the world and it's been overwhelming and I would be remiss to not talk about it as that's the whole point of this podcast. This episode, we are joined by Ri, a designer, an artist, and a fellow tarot reader and enthusiast. We ask the cards for support on understanding the current times and how we can support ourselves through it. 

@crystalballstudios

Let This Radicalize You by Mariame Kaba and Kelly Hayes 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, hello. I'm so sorry that I didn't end up posting an episode in February. I feel like you all probably know that there's a lot that's been going on. And so it's just been like hard to do tasks, which we're gonna talk about today. So, today we have actually our very first guest on Tender Tarot. It's my friend Rithika.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Well, hi Akshi. Thanks for having me. Yay! I'm so excited. We're taking the mics away from men and giving it to the people who actually need it. Yeah, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Sure. I mean, there's not much to say. I have a lot of opinions and I'm here to I'm here to state them. Yeah. Other than that, I do a bunch of art. I make a bunch of ads that you guys have probably seen on the internet floating around. And I have a lot of feelings. So let's talk about them. This is the Tender Tarot podcast of. I'm also witchy. That's the most important part, I guess. Two to two. Hell yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

And that is how we met at a um queer party here in Bangalore. So I asked Rhee if she wanted to come on the show. And initially, I was going to do an episode about like a whole different card, like kind of like the first two, but it just felt so weird for me to be like, oh, I'm doing podcasts that's about trauma and not address the ongoing traumatic events that are occurring in our world and how overwhelming it is. You know, it's just like a barrage of bad news, like over and over again. And it's been like this for a long time, like at least six years, if not more than that. And it just like keeps escalating. And so I kind of wanted to just name that there's all of this going on. There's like people getting kidnapped by ICE, the US, the Epstein files have been coming out. Yeah. Then the war in Iran started right after that, and it's just like so much escalated violence and death. These imperialist countries just thinking they can do whatever they want, which they are doing. Yeah. You know, pop Pakistan bombing Afghanistan, and then, like, yeah, in India, the bill to amend the Transgender Rights Act, which does nothing except make it harder to like get care. Get care, just so blatantly harmful. All of this is very overwhelming for us as individuals and also just like as a collective. So what we're gonna talk about today, the freeze response to trauma. Freeze is a response that happens when we feel overwhelmed. So there's actually like a stepped process in which our nervous system like goes through them. Like, first, like we have an experience of fright, which kind of puts us in a more alerted state.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

And then after that, you feel a sense of panic, which you first always look like if you can escape the situation. So it's not fight first, but it's flight first. Of course. Can I remove myself from the situation? If you can't, then next comes rage and the fight response. And then if that is also not an option, we experience this feeling of like terror and helplessness, which puts us into a freeze state that can lead to what's called the immobility or like playing dead because that's how you conserve energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

So tonic immobility, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yeah. Because if you think about it in terms of like mammals and the water. Yes. It help makes it so like predators might lose interest or they might think that there's something that's wrong with them, so they don't want to eat them. True. And also if they do get eaten, it's shut down their pain receptor so they don't feel it.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

And you know, we feel that too when you dissociate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was in a more dissociated state, when I was more depressed, my tattoos wouldn't hurt as much. I could sit through, you know, a three-hour tattoo, and maybe at the end they would start like bothering me. But about six months ago, I got a tattoo on my collarbone, near my collarbone. And surprisingly, that one. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say hurt a lot, but I could feel the pain, you know. More than others. Yeah, and I could feel the sensations. And the difference is before it's sort of a numb, all over pain, but now you can actually feel exactly where the right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

The receptors are in there. So it's crazy. It's like a very biological, neurobiological response. And I think that's what I think I also said it in the last episode that the misunderstanding that people have around trauma responses is like someone's like actively choosing to do this thing when it's just like your nervous system responding to needing to survive a particular situation.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah. Doesn't feel in your control at all.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

And it's not because it's not in like the control of your conscious, like logical, rational part of your brain. It's like being run by the survival parts of your brain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah. Does this is this what they call the monkey brain?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

I mean, they in they talk it about talk about the reptile brain and stuff like that. Yeah. But it's more so, yeah, it's like the neocortex, which is the newest part of the brain that has like to do with language and thinking and rational thinking and executive functioning is separate from the part of the brain that's like to do with survival and like remembering experiences so that you can be prepared for them in the future. And like your trauma, your emotional memories, and like that's the part of your body that's also associated with regulation. It is, and your neocortical brain is not associated with regulation in a direct way. That's why you can't like rationalize your way out of having a trauma response. You know, even if you think like, oh, this doesn't make sense for this situation, like your body is like still feeling it. And getting some kind of message of unsafety.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Can't intellectualize it. Yeah. So we have two types of freeze states, right? In CPTSD. And the first one is your acute freeze. This is more sudden and it's complete immobilization, right? So it happens usually when you're in a state of absolute terror, and fight or flight is not an option. Yeah. You just can't leave, you can't fight it out. You're, you know, the threat is probably bigger than you. Maybe you feel like you just can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah, I feel like a good example is like in horror movies and they have the intruder. Yeah. And they're they have to be in the closet and they have to be really quiet. So yeah, the fight or flight is not really an option. So like and there's some people who can like you don't hear them breathing because it's so like true.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah. I guess the play dead really comes. Yeah. True. Comes to comes into play.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

And yeah, so in the face of perceived threat, right? It's complete immobilization. So you you can't speak, you can't think, you can't hear. Um, and of course, I don't think you're really thinking about eating. Um in that moment, you're just you're you're done. Yeah. And functional freeze is slightly different. So it's a little bit more subtle and a lot more common than you'd think. So on the outside, this is your typical high-functioning person. They're going about their day, they're doing everything, you know. Society sees a lot of great value in this person, of course. Yes. Um, they're achieving everything that they're supposed to achieve on this checklist. But inside, there's a lot of uh emotional numbness and a complete disconnection from self. Maybe I feel like that's also a spectrum. I wouldn't say complete. I would it definitely depends on where you fall on that spectrum of dissociation for sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, because we all have um, like I've seen this dissociative spectrum before where it's like on the more common end, it's like people that are daydreaming and like you know, things that happen on a regular basis and then that move towards.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, you know, when you drive your car, yeah, yeah, and it's a route that you take every day.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

You you're not always fully there. Sometimes, you know, you kind of let yourself float away. I mean, you listen to music that you really like.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah, I mean, you can think about even times where um I think like you're just doing tasks, but then you don't remember that you've done them. Correct. Because they're just like so automatic.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah, autopilot, right? Pretty much. So that's what functional freeze is like as well. But it's on a more chronic level, it's more every day or could be weeks to months.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

And is anyone finding that relatable? Oof. Can't imagine what that would feel like. Yeah. Wait, wait. Oh, that just reminds me. I told you this before, how like this was my example of functional freeze one time. I don't know how functional it was, but it was when I like couldn't stop watching the the Korean zombie shows for a few days. And I just like I just would keep letting it just like play. Yeah. And then I would watch the next one.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

No, I get it. Uh, that was me watching the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. 14 seasons, mind you.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Are you on the 14th? No. I'm on the 15th. Dude, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Wow. What can I say? It sometimes when you're in that state, nothing else helps. Like, you can't really process information. So you watch something that you really don't need to use any brain power for, you know? And that was never me before. Before I entered a period of chronic dissociation, yeah. I would never watch shows like this. And I'm not coming from a place of like judgment, judgment or moral high ground. It just is like change. A fact. Yeah, it's just a fact and a change. And I love it now. Yeah, I have my opinions about it. But I it's it's it's great TV, like this, it's it's trashy, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I love it. I was thinking about so how would the freeze response be adaptive in a world in which there's so much going on all of the time, and like honestly, it's like they know what they're doing because they pile us on with all of this horrific media with nobody facing consequences for doing like just the most horrifying things over and over again. And I was reading this article that was about fascism and trauma, and how it was talking about how it's a quality that um leaders who are fascistic use, they capitalize on like us feeling unsettled, our unexpected grievances, traumas, losses, and you can see that in how like these world leaders are also um activating people on a collective level and their fears, um, and making it very binary in this like us versus the other.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

I think also for the first time in history, we are getting to see footage from ground zero constantly on our phones in a very uncensored way.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

And I I think it's scaring everybody involved, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

It's not even just been, yeah, in the past few years, it's like over the past couple decades, like how many wars have there been and shootings and stuff where like we just consistently get sensitized to watching things happen and then nothing changes. We consulted with the cars to ask like what's the energy of the freeze that's sort of going on right now versus tarot of the unknown, which is the over the garden wall tarot.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

We also picked this particular deck because it felt like we're kind of going into these weird unknown times, and the unknown deck just seemed perfect for it. Yeah. So we pulled some cards and we got the three of axes, the world in reverse, and the Queen of Wands. Okay, so I'm going for a very literal meaning here with the uh three of axes. So the imagery has um three axes on this heart, right? And it's basically splitting it open, it's raining, it's this broken tool.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Which by the way, it's raining here too. Oh, yeah, and it hasn't been for months.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

So I mean, it's summer's beginning, yeah, yes, weather's changing, and that's how I see it in the start as well. Yeah. Um, but I also see a lot of heartbreak. Yeah. And then we have the world in reverse. Again, I take this as a literal meaning of the world being in the state like disarrayed, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just this horrible state that we're in. Everything's out of balance. Yeah, out of balance.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

And maybe the world card reverse is when in your personal life, when the universe is trying to teach you something, and you're like really not learning it, and you're just, you know, doing the same thing over and over again, but it just gets worse and worse and worse because it's just trying to be like, why are you not getting it? And I feel like that's happening to Earth and humans collectively. It's like the oil is not working. This is like way in which you're living with each other, and the lust of the land is not sustainable. Like you have to, like, this is not we need to give. Yeah, we're just taking, we're just taking constantly, and there's just like more consequences and more consequences, yeah. Because we're not allowing this like way of being to be like done, yeah. So that we can be in a better relationship with everything and ourselves, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

But how much of that is also on individuals versus big corporations? Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

You know, I mean, of course, I think we as I mean, I just think it's a result of living under capitalism that people who are in the positions of power like people who are unempathetic and psychopathic um are rewarded in the capitalist system. I agree. And therefore they run our world. So I guess that connects to sort of like how I was looking at Pat the Radical Therapists who had a post with accountability mapping, and they were talking about how under fascism emotion is seen as weakness, tenderness is dangerous, difference is punished, creativity is restricted, touch, rest, protest, and pleasure are all threats. And then she's talking about how first like they politicize our bodies, which you can see happening on like who has a right to exist versus who doesn't. Yeah. In like, you know, the violation that's happening around trans rights, like here in India, and just globally as a trend as well. And also, like, who is worthy of like being alive, and who is worthy of what an insane thought I know it's insane, it's seriously insane. And then people think that you know our mental and emotional health is so just disconnected. Like, how can it be disconnected when the world is like this?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So I feel like there could be two types of people responding to this. One that disconnection can come from dissociation, yeah, from either self-preservation or ignorance, it can be either or, yeah, right? But the other version or the other type of person could be somebody who's just on the wrong side of history, right? You're pumped full of all the wrong information, so much hatred and anger and it's just misdirected. Yes, and they don't see what's unfolding right in front of them.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I also do think though, that there are 100% a lot of people who are also leftists who like we need to be able to like see how we are playing to exactly what the powers that be want us to play to, which is like to fight with each other and police each other when we have shared goals, you know? And fascism requires everyone to be the same, and it says that difference is not allowed, and that's how a lot of people act, honestly, in leftist spaces, and there has to be room for black people to grow, and there has to be room for nuance. It's like nobody was born just being like, Oh yeah, I know all of these things. Like you have to educate yourself. And if we don't believe that other people can change, then why are we even doing anything? You know, we could just submit at that point.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

But like I I read something recently, it said um vokeness can be a form of censorship, it's just a cancel culture thing where it's like you can't say anything wrong, and you have to expect that everyone knows the same terminology, which is just like not realistic either.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Like, yeah, but be open to listening, exactly. That's the most thing you can ask of people is that they're like curious, wanting to learn, wanting to change, like based on the new information. Like, that's what I would base it on rather than like what someone is like just coming in with.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

True, true.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

But we were all yeah, we're I guess talking about like how freeze response is adaptive. Pat the radical therapist says like that we neurobiologically learn as humans to keep ourselves small, be still, don't make waves, don't draw attention, don't express your emotions, don't rest, like things like that under fascism. So we can see how that's really similar to just a freeze response, especially the functional freeze, because you have to still be existing under capitalism, working in an office, corporate culture, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

You have to stay small, stay still. Yeah, you just don't make waves, don't have a personality, don't stand apart, just do what we ask you to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

So, like I when I was reading about it in the complex PTSD workbook, she was talking about how people who have a functional freeze have a split between a functioning part that's able to do all of the work and everything that they need to do, and then they have a shutdown part, which is usually the part that holds on to the emotions. And then I was I have even watched Severance, but then I was thinking it's like Severance because that's what it's about, right? Yeah, going to the office and then coming home and forgetting.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yes, it they go in and everything's just gone, memories gone, emotions gone, you're this completely different. Just like a robot, kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Which is which is what is expected of people. You're expected not to get sick. Yeah, if you if somebody dies, too bad. Like you get one day of grief leave. If the world is just imploding, we're just all just supposed to continue doing what we're doing as though it's not.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Don't you know we have targets to hit? Yeah, excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

It's honestly just I feel like I live in the Twilight Zone in the Black Mirror episode. I'm like, This has to be a prank. Yeah. Am I being pranked? It's a weird timeline, it's a very weird timeline. I feel frozen. I feel tired. Same dude. This is why the whole point of me making this podcast episode is to say this is why I didn't make an episode in February. Because I get out of jail and I'm literally on a break from work right now to kind of try to get myself out of it. Hell yeah. Which we'll talk about later. But it's, I think, such a valid. Response to how things are right now, and like asking someone how are you doing is like such a loaded question all the time. Because what does that even mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

I got a question the other day. Are you happy?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

What is that?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

What is that even in some moments?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I am correct.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

And some moments it's I don't know really.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

I think also, like, yeah, we got the Queen of Wands, which I was like thinking, because it's the witch card as well, because she has a cat and she has a wand, and so it signifies like magic and yeah, uh wisdom. I think it's something about like like one of the things that fascism tries to do is to like make us the same, break our creativity. But I think partially it's like saying, you know, remember that you have the capacity to be able to do that, and to also with like the old cat I and sort of the witchy energy, I feel like it's like rely on your ancestors who have come before you and been through like so much shit, also for like how we can go forward.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I actually see the cat as this protective figure because it's by her feet. Yeah, and usually they do say that if cats are by your feet, they're protecting you. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, and I see a sunflower as well, right? So they say you're not supposed to keep just one sunflower, or if they if it is like you need to make sure it has space to look at the sun, because otherwise, if you have two, they look at each other if they can't find the sun, right? And that's why they recommend having two sunflowers.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

So I feel like the sunflower is almost guiding her towards the sun.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah, and I mean I think it's about thaw, like could be about thawing as well. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

We also pulled Adi's oracle cards. It's fauna inspiration, yeah. Okay, and we got the owl, the card of transformation. I also feel like it has a lot to do with wisdom and knowledge. Yeah. Um, I feel like this is a time where we need to be learning and educating ourselves a lot more. Brain rot is kind of what they want us to succumb to.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Taking in this freaking AI slot and just like not have critical thinking skills and just like not have to use our brains at all so that they can just control us better. If you're someone that uses AI a lot, really just consider. Could you just do it yourself? We're really like, I connect so many things to like this efficiency culture and needing to do things fast or just like urgency, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, this fake sense of urgency.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, it's like you don't need to do that. Sometimes you have to just put yourself in the process of doing it, you know. But how can we sort of begin to thaw? I think in a lot of ways, I think in the in the book I was reading how it said like thawing from functional freedoms doesn't mean being less productive, it means reconnecting with your authentic self so that your actions come from choice and engagement and not like autopilot, and so that you're more yeah, more embodied and yeah, present, and that you're making more intentional choices. Yeah. So we're gonna ask, like, how can we begin to thaw in like practical ways while all this overwhelming stuff is happening? So we have ten of wands reversed, and then two of cups reverse, wheel of fortune, which is interesting because it's a wheel of fortune year. But also look 10, 10, 2, 2, 2. Wow, yeah, two of cups, high priestess, which is two, and two of wands, which is also two. Wheel of Fortune is ten, ten of wands is ten. It's like a lot of what we're dealing with is like being in not right relationship with each other or the earth, and that we need to balance that, and this is like relationships, also our intuition and a relationship to self.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yes, and also when I see this wheel of fortune card, there's so much symmetry here, and there's so much balance, yeah, talking about two talking about balance with ourselves, with others, it's definitely present, especially with the wheel of fortune being this year, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah, um, the card for the year, totally, yeah. And I'm thinking how in this card there's this there's a frog in the two of wands card, and he's on a boat, and he's smoking a pipe, and it looks like the earth, and there's like a question mark. And I feel like it's sort of like saying, like, asking, ask yourself what role can you play? Where do you fit yourself in in creating the kind of world that you do want to live in? And so if the question is like, how do we begin to thaw? It's like it's not about like you're thawed, it's like you're starting to. So that's a thing that I also have read about when it comes to like coming out of the freeze response, especially when you think about it more so in a collective way rather than individually. It's like think about what is the thing that drives you and motivates you, which is like a fire, so that you can like bring that out to take an action to go against the freeze, to sort of remember that you can fight, for example. Like you have that within you, uh-huh. And like, how can you metabolize the like terror and rage that you're feeling?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Interesting. Okay, because okay, so if you look at the imagery on this, this is the Two of Cups in reverse. There is this woman and this man, and it looks like they're toasting, but it looks also like it's they're kind of getting married almost, right? Like this, and he's wearing a mask. And I feel like two things come to me. One, take off the mask, there's a lot of autopilotness going around. Yeah, number two, be wary of what you hear, especially going around now with the media, yeah, with like AI. Yeah, so I don't know what to believe now. Meaning, and that's what they want.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yes, exactly. This is they want to make this the word collective gaslighting is. Yeah, yeah. You know, if you ever have experienced gaslighting, this is what it's like to experience it on a mass scale. Yep. Abuse dynamics are the same on a collective scale as they are personally. Just with more people, they do the same. That makes so much because it's just about controlling you and having power over you and exploiting you, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

It happens in school, it happens at work, it happens at any in any place where you're at a position when you're in a position of power. Yeah, if you have power over somebody, you can abuse it. Yeah, and that's the supreme.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

And that's what people do. Yeah. Because we live in a society in which rewards people who abuse their power, and like the motivation is to like just get more and more and more rather than being so. In this book that I read, Politics of Trauma, she talks about the difference between power over versus power with, and like that, we could be sharing power with one another, and actually, when you do that, you the amount of like energy you have, like, yeah, is so much more. True, because you everyone has an equal share of power, yeah, and are working towards the same thing, making sure everyone has what they need, and we have the capacity to do that, dude. We're such an advanced society, and this is we're just making AI slop. I need I need people to like wake up because we're gonna wake up one day and then there's not gonna be any water. Yeah, it's not gonna be a good time, dude. Not at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

We're already seeing it with the LPG shortage, by the way. Yeah, there's an LPG shortage in India. Also, you know what I'm thinking? What a great idea to actually record an episode when times are like this. Because I'm worried about the rewriting of history, and I like that we can have this platform to actually see and just like have a record. Yeah, and even if this if this part doesn't go out, also that's fine. We have it, and that's proof. So, this insane gaslighting that we're facing on a global level. Yeah, I'm glad that we have some kind of proof. We have some semblance of power. Actually, we do have power.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

We have a lot of power, we just need to act on it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

And like it's just about organizing with each other, you know when you feel a little powerless, that's very similar to how you feel in a freeze response, actually.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

But because that's what's happening. It's like right before you have a freeze response, you're like, there's nothing I can do. And so they have put us in this autopilot mode, so like we don't have to blame ourselves for being within it.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Just pumping us full of horrible, horrible news, images.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

And that's also something that you can do is try to figure out how to consume media in a way that's not so uncontained, basically.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

This card just popped up and I felt like it was important. Strength. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, I feel like strength very much is a card that comes up when times are super like aggressive, and it's also fire, there's a lot of fire, like wands, strength is also like fire, real energy, and so it's saying like sun, sun, talking about if you just think about it in a very literal sense, it's just about like yeah, what fire can we bing to like thaw the ice?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Wow, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

That's yeah, dancing, going to the rage, dude.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

I really need to go, I need to loosen my hips, dance, have a great time.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

You can build like a sensory grounding toolkit. So, like if you really like a certain um texture or scent, you can make a little bag that has all the stuff in it so that you can use it to kind of like ground in your body in a positive way. And then of course, there's just like you know, the reason that movements are called movement because it is a way that we're collectively moving together. Absolutely, and yeah, I mean, there's people doing there's a lot of people who are already doing so much stuff that like you don't have to start something new, you can just plug into your local community, people who are like your neighbors, you know, um, because everyone is affected by this, whether or not they like to admit it or not.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I think all the apolitical people need to start coming out now and really taking a course.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

It's not there's no such thing as apolitical because again, we were talking about how earlier people's bodies are politicized and then pathologized. If you're an apolitical person, what you're saying is none of this stuff affects me personally, so I don't give a fuck about it. But that's pretty much what they're saying, yeah, and they don't care. But that's that's not apolitical, that's making a choice of being someone who a selfish person, of being more individualistic and less thinking about like our collective well-being, and not having a level of empathy, so something to consider, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Ooh, I don't like that. Imagine if you don't have that kind of empathy, that's a little scary.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah, but that is what's rewarded in the capitalist system. Let's just look at who's in our positions of power and how they run our world. I think that the last part that I was gonna talk about is the high priestess. I think that's to me is telling me that it's about really getting back in touch with your intuition because what the freeze response does is like it stops you from engaging in your intuitive impulses on how to live, which your body has that wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

And when you disconnect from your body, you lose out on that wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, exactly. And it's saying like that's why it's important to come back in touch with it so that you can access the wisdom of your own intuition and how like that's a priority to like your relationship with yourself and your relationship with other needs to be in balance, come back into balance. The card that came out from the fauna inspiration was Snake. Oh, I love that. Um, wild, because it's the end of the year. And it's also just about release and discarding, discard the items in your life that are no longer of value. I hear that.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah, I and it's also Mercury retrograde, which is a period of reflecting on what doesn't serve you anymore. Yes, um, and it's also eclipse season, which is again a period of reflecting on what doesn't serve you anymore, out with the old, in with the new. Yeah, but it's been hard. It's been it has been hard. I feel like the last one month or so has been a period of very hard lessons and ups and downs.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

And they said it. They said February is gonna be rough, and it was so rough. Well, given the fact that it's been rough for a while and seems to be continuing to get rougher, like we thought we'd shuffle the cards and ask, like, what is one card? This like sort of like an energy we can anchor into as a way to soothe ourselves, as to fuel ourselves, sort of through this hard times moment. Yeah, not moment, many moments, a long, long moment.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Yeah. So we got the ace of cups when we were also using the crow tarot. We have this beautiful chalice that's overflowing with water, right? And it almost turns into this pond um at the bottom. You see these beautiful lotuses. There's also the sun in the background, we um see clouds, there's changing weather, I see. So a lot of changing times, maybe. There's a crow that dips in, and there's a crow that's at the mouth of the chalice, and it's just trying to it's looking and it's reflecting. So if I were to interpret this just you know visually by what's really going on in this card, I would say um we really need to take this time as a period of reflection.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yeah, because it looks like the crow is looking at itself too. Exactly. And actually, what it reminded me of I think I'm thinking about the gang the crow story.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yes, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

If you guys don't know, there's this uh famous crow story from I guess it's like a thumber story.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Is it a thumber story? I've just grown up curing. I think it's an Aesob's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

So it's about this crow that's like thirsty and wants to get water, and then I think it's supposed to be like about how crows are smart and they can like problem solve and use tools. It's but I think about that story specifically, also it's like more about creativity and thinking out of the box because it's like, how do I get this water? And it it just like thinks, like, okay, let me try putting the rock in, like without even knowing whether it's curiosity, yeah, and the crew and experimenting. True, yeah. True, true. So I think it's saying like anchor into your creativity, think outside of the box, remember that you're not alone, and also like cups are always associated with emotions and our relationship to ourself as well. Okay and so like I was thinking as well, how like when things are this overwhelming, of course, it makes sense to feel disconnected, feel dissociated, feel like you just want to, like, you know, doom scroll or like binge watch TV or whatever else ways you like to dissociate. And this card is really saying like feel your emotions as to what's happening right now, like because this should be bringing up grief, this should be bringing up rage, and you can fuel that into whatever action feels like aligned for you. I see that, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Um, I also again in interpreting this visually, the overflowing chalice and water turns into this beautiful garden, right? Like, and I feel like that's the cards telling us to push all of this love that you have, all of this compassion that you have in your heart, make it overflow, let it create this community, create this beautiful garden so that we can all benefit from it. Exactly. And if you see there's the sun, you know, you have these clouds, there's another crow here in the background. He's had a very rough day, it's hot, and he comes in, takes a dip, maybe takes a sip, he's chilling. Yes, you know. I I really see this as um a a pro community care. Yes, community care, but also give and take.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, um, yeah, and it's also what I'm taking away from this card personally is whatever I do, it maybe I may not see the benefits of it personally. I may not see it, but it's going to help somebody, and that somebody is going to go on to help somebody else. And it's like a chain reaction almost, and that's what I get from this card.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. And I think um maybe one thing we can end on is some like like practical examples of what like using this card as inspiration could be. So, like, as you were talking, I was thinking about how. So, because me and Ree live near each other, sometimes we send each other food when the other person is like tired and hasn't been able to cook, but the other person is like, hey, I have cooked this thing, and it makes such a huge difference, like in the moment, especially because we both um live alone, so we don't have like help with cooking and things like that. Um that's one example that I thought. Yeah, yeah, it's like you you feel nice sharing what you've cooked with someone else, and that other person feels nourished by something that you've provided with.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

I love that. I love that you use the word nourished, and I feel that's something we're lacking right now as a society. Yeah, you know, we don't nourish each other, we don't even care. I think we've all become so individualistic. It's it's so sad.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

It is, it's so sad. And I think in the first episode, I was talking about how, like, you know, our core needs as humans are for safety, belonging, and dignity. And what I've learned from like teachers that I really look up to is that those needs are yes, can be fulfilled in one-on-one relationships, but they're more so a function of groups and societies that we live in. And I think that we're sorely lacking that between each other, but we also need to be the ones to sort of like begin to cultivate it more. I agree, at least in our small circles.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Yeah. You don't really go and ask a neighbor for sugar anymore, you just order it on Insta Mart.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I try, I was trying not to do that. Yeah. When I need milk, I usually just go next door and ask because I know they'll have it. So shout out to my neighbors. Y'all are awesome. Yeah, I made this connection of how, like, there's this outsourcing of everything, and so we never need to speak to people. So now it's very hard to speak to people. Oh, yeah, right. To combat that, like try to challenge yourself to just like at least know who lives around you and works around you because I think when shit gets worse than it is going to, that is going to be something that is important, you know. Do you have any other examples of what Ace of Cups could be?

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Uh self-love. Like taking care of yourself, nourishing your own cups, nourishing your own self. I mean, nourish your own cup so then it can overflow. Right. If you're drained and you have nothing left to give, what's the what are you going to give? It's you're not going to be able to show up the way you probably want to. So that's also a reminder for myself, because I feel like I've been draining my cup a lot lately. Yeah. And it's time to same here, dude. Yeah, it's it's I mean that is what we were talking about, right? When we were recording this. Um it was hard. I think last one month was hard, but now that we're almost at the end of March. I would say Jam started off okay, and then it just launched us into a series of world and personal events that kind of rocked our perspective on life. And I'm still I'm still reeling from it, and I'm slowly trying to gain some sense of grounding now. Um same.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah. Well, I think for those who are, you know, astrologically inclined or curious, many further away planets like Pluto and Saturn and Neptune, um, which usually take a lot longer to move from one sign to the other. Some of them moved from Pisces to Aries. Aries is a very fiery sort of like um honestly, I think it rules like war because Aries is the god of war. War. Yes. Um very action, go energy, go to go energy. And Pisces is obviously very much not like that. And then also Pluto moved from Capricorn to Aquarius. So if you're feeling like wow, a lot of things feel like they're like massively shifting right now and it's really intense, that is what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

So um it's a big transition, and that affects us on a global level, yeah. Yeah, and then of course, you have other things that affect us. On the other levels, too.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

One last thing that I wanted to say, actually, that um the card reminded me of was um this book that I've read parts of, but I highly recommend it. It's called Let This Radicalize You, and it's by Kelly Hayes and Miriam Kaba that are both activists, and it's kind of talks about how you can literally what we're talking about, which is like fueling your anger and your grief and your emotions regarding the state of things into action within your community and action towards yourself. So I don't have the book anymore, but I do have the like study guideslash workbook, and maybe I'll post some stuff on my Instagram around it on the Tender Tarot Instagram. So go there and check it out. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast free.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

It was lovely. I've never been on a podcast before. I mean, I've been on many imaginary ones in my kitchen, in my washroom, whenever I feel like I need to speak sure.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

I have known that I would be a podcast host when I was talking to myself as a child.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Right. See, that's what I'm telling you. I've trained for this. I've been training for this my entire life. Um but it was it was quite fun. I didn't expect it to feel so natural.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Where do you want people to be able to follow you or find you places?

SPEAKER_01 48:10

You can totally follow my art at Crystal Ball Studios on Instagram. And if you feel like commissioning me or buying some of the art that I have, well, please DM.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Cool. Well, I appreciate you coming on, and I hope that you all enjoyed this episode. I can't promise when the next episode will be out, but just know that I am pondering on it. Anyways, take care of yourselves. Stay healthy, stay healthy, pour it into your own cup, refill it. Refill your own cup, feel your feelings as much as you can, don't dissociate, and talk to your neighbors and the people that live near you and the people that you love. Yes, that too. Okay, bye. Hello? Sorry, I'm just testing.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Hello?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Hello?

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Hello?

unknown 49:13

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Thank you for listening to Tender Tarot. This is a labor of love, and it brings my heart warmth that you have listened all the way to the end of this episode. Stay tuned for ways to support and ways to stay connected. For now, give us a subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you enjoyed what you heard, please share it with your friends. With love and in solidarity. The music that you heard on this podcast came from Childhood Memories by Claver Clavier from Pixabay. It was written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Akshi. You can find us on Instagram at Tender Tarot Podcast, or you can email me at tender tarot pod at protonmail.com. Catch you in the next one.